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  • Morning Bell: The White House Strikes Back

    An overwhelming majority of Americans (72%) don’t believe President Barack Obama will keep his promise to overhaul the health care system without adding to the federal deficit, according to a study released yesterday by the Quinnipiac University. According to Gallup: “Americans are being asked to approve major new health care expenditures at a time when they are not yet convinced that the last massive outlay of government money — the stimulus — has made an impact.”

    Yet the White House and their allies are trying to convince the media that the anger at townhalls across the county is being manufactured by special interests in Washington.  At a press conference, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) called the protests “phony”, holding up a swatch of Astroturf  to illustrate his point. And the White House is telling supporters “to punch back twice as hard” at anybody who dares to question their policies. Unfortunately, some Obama supporters are taking that call literally.

    At a townhall last night in St. Louis, Kenneth Gladney, 38, a local conservative activist  said he was attacked by Obama supporters, one of whom used a racial slur against him before the attack. From the emergency room at St. John’s Mercy Medical Center, Gladney, who is black, told the St. Louis Dispatch: “It just seems there’s no freedom of speech without being attacked.” In Tampa, Florida, protester Barry Osteen was pushed in the face by Democratic Club Treasurer Karen Miracle, and union members allegedly assaulted another concerned citizen. Both of the events were organized by the Service Employees International Union (SEIU). Asked about the possibility of people concerned about Obama showing up at their event, in Tampa, SEIU spokeswoman Kim Diehl told the St. Petersburg Times: “We’re prepared. We have strategies to deal with it if it should come up.”

    As this video plainly shows, one of those strategies is to lock out dissenters while letting in purple- shirted SEIU members. The desire to silence dissent on Obamacare goes all the way to the top. At a Democratic rally in Virginia last night, the President told supporters: “I don’t want the folks who created the mess doing a lot of talking. I want them to just get out of the way so we can clean up the mess.”

    Not everyone on the left has been so quick to silence the opposition. In direct contradiction to claims by Sens. Harry Reid (D-NV) and Dick Durbin (D-IL), Sen. Claire McCaskill tweeted last night: “I disagree that the people showing concern over some health care proposals are ‘manufactured’ Real folks, strong opinions.” And Sen. Ben Cardin told Fox News: “People have strong views about health care reform. The overwhelming majority of Americans want to participate. They want to know how it affects them, and what it will do with their health insurance through what it will do with their health care costs. Those are legitimate questions.”

    Cardin and McCaskill are dead-on. The American people have every right to be concerned about taking a leftist turn on health care. Just look at France. The Wall Street Journal reports today that the soaring costs of France’s state health insurer, Assurance Maladie, are causing complaints from patients, doctors, and nurses that care is being rationed. Exploding costs and rationed health care are the exact same concerns that Americans are voicing about Obamacare at townhalls across the country. Instead of silencing their critics, the White House should begin listening to their concerns.

    Quick Hits:

    Posted in Ongoing Priorities [slideshow_deploy]

    78 Responses to Morning Bell: The White House Strikes Back

    1. jim smith says:

      As to Nobama operatives responding to Town Hall meeting attendees, beware of goons bearing baseball bats. It's open season for your kneecapper class, especially the union bosses who give the term "crooked" a bad name. It's Chicago leg breaker time!

    2. Robert Reilly Virg says:

      I have watched the videos of these "MOB" actions and participants and notice the ages of these people. Up until 3 weeks ago, these folks had trouble working up a good bowel movement. These folks are upset because the know that their representatives are lying to them. Patrick Henry said that taxation woithout representation was tryanny. What we have now is taxation with misrepresentation and that is CRIMINAL! The people are waking up to the fact that the democrat party is being run by the ultra liberal faction with very socialist goals. The people are now taking steps to prevent this fromgoing any further. Hopefully, the republican party recognizes this and fields conservatives at 2010 and 2012 elections. If not, then it's good night GOP.

    3. ed knitter says:

      If attending a Town Hall meeting, WHEN elected officials try to sugar coat OBAMACARE, remind them they already voted for legislation that wasn’t even written yet ! we don’t want ANY Gov. health care PERIOD !

      PS please add my name to Obamas list of dissention

    4. Martin/Georgia says:

      Obama dispatched these goons. Seems like a violation of civil rights.

      He is so Chavez!

    5. Jack Lohman says:

      I know how to do this without adding to the federal deficit: increase taxes! Our top rate of 35% has a long way to go before it reaches Sweden's 50%.

    6. Mad-andy, Missouri says:

      I cannot trust these elected officials any longer. If my reps vote for any of this stuff, I will lose my job if I have to, in order to find the time to campaign for the other guy/gal and against them.

      On the issue of thugs keeping us from the meetings: I think it is a clear and present danger to all outspoken conservatives. Furthermore, I think it will be even worse in some areas during the next election cycle. I think it might be wise to form election "groups" that all go to the polling place together. If you have 15-20 conservatives all showing up at the same time, it will be harder for the thugs to try and intimidate any individual.

      If necessary, we will adopt their tactics. The American people are nothing if not resourceful.

      "the branch that is flexible will not break"

    7. Whicket Williams Kin says:

      I hope everybody Who is wanting to express their rights as american citizens will be very careful to be polite and always go in groups with plenty of recording devices to protect them selves from the thugs hired by Community organizers to suppress freedom in

      america. We must not allow ourselves to be shown as the aggressors. The wheels of justice will turn, If we are careful to document everything as it occurs. It is possible that some poeple will be hurt by the thugs hired by the comunity organizers, or the actual organizers themselves. This is a very sad and unfortunate thing, but the brave Americains who love this country and have so bravely defended her against all of her enemy's will not be intimidated by this enemy any more that we are others.

    8. Richard Cancemi, Arl says:

      The majority of the discussion re. Health Care has the nation focused on COSTS which are outrageous and should not be incurred. However the general public needs to learn what is proposed in that Health proposal. It is an Hitlerian attempt to engineer the collective population at the expense of individuals.

      The many intentions of the Government that are revealed in the Health proposals are to take over life and death decisions re. each and every one of us. It is an evil Bill masquerading as something good. The Public should not be distracted from this by the smoke of the Cost argument alone. Besides the Government has NO business or right to intrude in our lives. We are not their subjects!

    9. Kathryn Bozzi, Branf says:

      The President is talking more like a community organizer (which he was) than like a President (which he was elected to be). Shame on you, Mr. President.

    10. Richard Cancemi, Arl says:

      Subject: A few highlights from the first 500 pages of the Health Care bill in congress. And this is only the first 500 pages; there are at least 500 more!!!!!

      Contact your Representatives and let them know how you feel about this. We, as a country, cannot afford another 1000 page bill to go through congress without being read. Another 500 pages to go. I have highlighted a few of the items that are downright unconstitutional.

      • Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!

      • Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!

      • Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)

      • Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.

      • Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.

      • Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Health card.

      • Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.

      • Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)

      • Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to g overnment rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.

      • Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)

      • Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens

      • Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.

      • Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.

      • Page 124: No company can sue the government for pr ice-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.

      • Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.

      • Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.

      • Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their familie s.

      • Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll

      • Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll

      • Page 167: Any individual who doesn’t' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.

      • Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).

      • Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.

      • Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.

      • Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."

      • Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)

      • Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.

      • Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.

      =E 2 Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.

      • Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!

      • Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.

      • Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.

      • Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!

      • Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.

      • Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.

      • Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.

      • Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.

      • Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals..

      • Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).

      • Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?

      • Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers=2 0of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.

      • Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.

      • Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.

      • Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.

      • Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.

      • Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.

      • Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.

      • Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.

      • Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.

    11. Chris, Tampa, Iraq says:

      WoW, all I hear on the news is republican angry mobs, now that the Dem's showed up and acted 10 times more unruly and violent. What are they going to say on the news tonight, they make excuses and say it's all O.K., just like they always do. We are in trouble in this country. Socialism is great until the people paying for it run out of money. Take that statement to heart everyone. Freedom is fading, let's take it back. Stand strong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    12. Lloyd Scallan - New says:

      It's past time to be "nice". Obama's and his thugs want push, we can and will push back, but harder. This passive attitude will not stop Obama.

      Regardless of what we do, the left news media will

      demonize our efforts regardless of what they are. I sincerely hope I am never in a position to where

      an attemp is made to bar me from a public meeting (as in Tampa) by thugs from th SEIU. I will use any means required not allow that to happen.

    13. Jerry S. Dickinson, says:

      Greetings one and all. I am just about fed clear up to the top. Never in my 54 years have I felt the need to act. Equal representation under the law, We the People, If our representatives can no longer grasp the concept of We the People, a government purposefully structured from the bottom up, then we need to make it very clear. Obviously phone calls, emails,letters, and tea bags don't make it past the first layer of insulation they have all surrounded themselves with. Our pleas go unheard, our voices muted by the sound of their boots as they walk to their own agenda. It is our lives we are fighting for.

    14. Jim in Wisconsin says:

      If you liked Fannie Mae, you'll LOVE Fannie Med.

    15. Tim Lyons says:

      Let's keep up the momentum. We Will get our country back. Since there is so many "Good hard working Americans" out of work we have time to protest. Bet OBAMA didin't count on that scenario playing out.

    16. Sioux New Orleans says:

      I would love to know who and how to contact the person or group of persons in the White House responsible for checking out the "fishy" emails against Barry's heatlh care changes.

    17. Bob in St. Louis, MO says:

      This is typical behavior from the "Chosen One"! The american people will not be deterred and prevented from speaking their grievances about this national health care debate. I will be at Sen. Claire McCaskills town hall meeting on 8/22 in St. Louis. The thugs better not stand in my way Mr. Obama! I will exercise my rights under the 1st amendment and as a former U.S. Navy Vietnam veteran. Now, go ahead and put me on your so called "Enemies List" along with the other millions that will follow my example across this great land and country of ours over the coming days, weeks and months ahead. Leave my health care alone! And screw your "Cap & Trade", and your "Employee Free Choice Act" too! If you don't like us americans, then you should resign from the office of the presidency, move to Socialist France and take all your followers with you! You'll fit right in!

    18. Jim says:

      OUR 'UN-PRESIDENT' REACTED EXACTLY THE SAME

      WAY THAT IRAN'S, KOREA'S LEADERS WOULD HAVE.

      THINK ABOUT THAT AMERICA !!!!!!!!

    19. Jim says:

      FOR ALL NON-FOLLOWERS OF OUR POTUS, GO TO

      YOUTUBE AND SEARCH DR. MANNING ON OBAMA.

      VERY INTERESTING.

    20. Jan, Tennessee says:

      My husband is a medical professional who owns his

      practice. The first 25 years he paid off educational debt and equipment debt. That was after serving this country in the Air Force. Now as a 40 year practioner we are not only dismayed by the taxes we already pay but this Healthcare Bill if passed will probably necessitate my husband's retirement from a profession he loves and doesn't want to leave. His retirement will cost 7 people their jobs as well. Believe me he is one of many in his profession who are considering the same exit early. Trained staff will be jobless without possibility of job replacement in thier careers. This is reality.

      Incidentally we both were raised by middle income parents who taught us to pay our bills on time, to spend some, save some and give some. Our children were taught the same principles.

    21. jake,lhc says:

      And the President of the United States with axlehead, rahm the vulgar, baghdad bob and the democrats are starting this kind of elcrapo and then threating citizens/voters/taxpayers with the passing of fraudulent legislation by foney fraudulent actions of obama, reid and pelosi and operatives.

      Talk to any professions health person and they will tell you why the citizens/voters/taxpayers are pissed with the president, senate and congress operating like the mafia.

    22. Roger S., Ma. says:

      Dear Mr. President,

      I agree with you. Quoting your very own words:

      "I don’t want the folks who created the mess doing a lot of talking. I want them to just get out of the way so we can clean up the mess."

      Since you're the one who has been doing most of the public speaking on this issue, and it is your "managed" Democratic Congress who has created this mess while adding their "two cents' worth" (all it was!), and since especially you have been too cowardly to actually face anything but a carefully controlled MSM audience in most of your speaking engagements, I think you're also the one who should shut up first! And prevail on such as Harry, Nancy, and Joe to do likewise!

      Or, do you think that 1000+ pages of legislation which hardly anyone has read, much less understood in their entirety, will be the solution to any problem???

      Or, are we then to hear, later, when all of the flaws appear, your sidekick Biden proclaim that 'there was a slight misreading of the magnitude of the health-care issues'???

      Or, when this "plan" starts to function like all similar plans worldwide so far have, namely create massive out-of-control costs and rationing systems plus exorbitant taxation schemes to deal with them, are we then to hear we shouldn't complain because nobody else, worldwide, is any better off??? That we should be glad because in the past those "bad" insurance companies were no better???

      And, when the concerned American citizen "dares" to speak up against this obvious violation of any common knowledge or sense, how dare you or your supporters even hint at restricting his freedom to speak out and up???

      And, when the same concerned citizens speak to point out that nowhere does our Constitution grant either the Congress or the Federal Executive such powers as they need to claim in order to institute, much less force dissenting Americancs to participate in, such a system, how dare you claim said Constitution to be "empty" except for "negative rights only"??? When I and most people here commenting could prove to you in an hour's time the exact opposite??? How dare YOU???

      NO, Mr. President, and NO again! YOU shut up!

      YOU, not I, are the servant, a role you and your supporters so desperately wanted. Now that you have it, play the part and LISTEN, or get out of OUR way, and let us, who do know how to fix your multiple messes, fix them.

      YOUR proveable failure does not, ever, constitute OUR mandate ! I suggest you return to school to study our Constitution until you DO, someday, maybe, finally, understand what it means.

      Sincerely,

      RS

    23. Bob Veigel, Arlingto says:

      Very sad. The Nation is now under the control of incompetent, angry, hate America thugs.

    24. Lois Seeger Minneapo says:

      The only difference between government run health care and insurance companies is HOW they get their premiums. Insurance companies give you a choice for coverage, and charge a premium. The government TAKES your taxes and controls what you do. Who is more equipped to really KNOW the health care industry?

    25. Ken Jarvis - Las Veg says:

      GOOD NEWS!!!!

      WHY does the HF put it LAST?

      "The American economy lost 247,000 jobs in July,

      and the

      unemployment rate fell slightly,

      to 9.4%"

    26. Peter, Amherst MA says:

      If Obama and the Democrats succeed in forcing this health care bill when clearly the majority of working Americans are opposed to it and are generally happpy with their existing health insurance (as I am)then there will be nothing stopping them on other freedom-limiting, government-controlling legislation. This is vitally important (to stop) for the obvious reasons and the not so obvious big-picture reasons.

    27. JOHN PAUL JONES, Mic says:

      Just ask a simple question;" How much will my physician receive for an office visit and how many visits per year will I have?" If they can not answer that, they don't have a plan!!

    28. Cheryl, La Verne, CA says:

      I'm so angry I'm speechless but I will not give up. The government wants to shut us up and shut us out. We can't let this happen. Please pray for our country. Prayer works!

    29. Don, Lake Give-a-shi says:

      The good news: The American people are waking up to this tyrant (whom I blasted my email to at flag@whitehouse.gov , turning my own self in so the Obama-goons didn't have to). Was it Jefferson who said the tree of government needs to be pruned from time to time, and that a little revolution is necessary when a tryanical government gets too comfortable with its oppressive actions? I'm ready, and you can tell the Obama-goons you're ready too at the email above.

    30. J.C. Hughes, Texas says:

      Bravo Zulu to Missouri Bob.

      Tennessee Jan states well the dilemma faced by front-line providers.

      Massachusetts' Roger wrote one heck of a great letter. Let's hope Obama's people share it with their demagogue boss.

      Vegas Ken is lost as usual. Somebody get that boy a good compass and map.

      I've enjoyed reading all and simply cannot match the other excellent comments. Your voice is truly freedom's champion. My toast to you all: May the Eagle's keen eye continue to follow the Beltway's Chicago rat-pack.

    31. Audrey D. Anderson says:

      We Constitutionalists have been called fascists by the extreme left legislators, but check this: FASCISM: A TOTALITARIAN GOVERNMENT SYSTEM LED BY A DICTATOR AND EMPHASIZING AGGRESSIVE NATIONALISM AND OFTEN RACISM.

      I guess that this regime forgot their high school civics classes.

    32. Steve, Oregon says:

      I'll go to the town hall here in Oregon just

      to stand up to the union thugs. History/Poly Sci

      major who loves this country, it's history and

      the Constitution. I warned everyone I could about

      BO last summer, since he favors U.S.S.R. (United

      States Socialist Republic). He was then, who he

      is now; A ultra left wing progressive/Marxist who

      with his allies (Pelousy & Dingy Harry, etc) wants

      to change our country and make us slaves to the

      political elite. (Kommissars) Don't be fooled, they are purposely trying to ruin the ecomomy (crisis creates opportunity) and create complete

      government dependancy, where the Unions, media

      and elite tell us, when, where & how.

      As a long time martial artist, I will be standing up to the SEIU/Obama thugs at any town

      hall in my area. So bring your video camera and a

      couple of friends !

    33. MIchael Lehne Portla says:

      Never mind all the back and forth look at this, get mad as (&%#$) and start on your representatives today!!!

      This was sent to me by a Doctor friend who in turn received it from another Doctor who reviewed the first 500 pages of the plan.

      Shocking! Alarming! Orwellian! Can words describe the evil of what is being planned for us?

      THIS IS SO UNBELIEVABLE!!

      HERE IS A LIST OF THE HIGHLIGHTS OF THE FIRST 500 PAGES OF THE HEALTHCARE BILL.

      Here are a few of the items that are down right unconstitutional.

      • Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!

      • Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!

      • Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will b e no appeals process)

      • Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.

      • Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.

      • Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.

      • Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.

      • Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)

      • Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.

      • Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)

      • Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens

      • Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.

      • Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.

      • Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government m onopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.

      • Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.

      • Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.

      • Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.

      • Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll

      • Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll

      • Page 167: Any individual who doesn’t' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.

      • Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).

      • Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.

      • Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not=2 0be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.

      • Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."

      • Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)

      • Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.

      • Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.

      • Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.

      • Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!

      • Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.

      • Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.

      • Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!

      • Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.

      • Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.

      • Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.

      • Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.

      • Pag e 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.

      Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).

      • Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?

      • Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.

      • Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.

      • Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.

      • Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.

      • Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.

      • Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.

      • Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.

      • Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.

      • Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.

      =

      ——————————————————————————–

    34. Victoria, Florida says:

      Name calling and showing disrespect is not going to accomplish anything. The best thing to do is to write or e-mail your congress and senate leaders regardless who is for health reform or not. America, under the guidens of " in God we trust" need to pray more and speak with honor and respect to all those in authority over us.

    35. james green, NM says:

      Dear Concerned:

      Climate Change – according to HEARTLAND INSTITUTE – Enviromental Climate News, whom acquires temps from a satellite and charts monthly, the Earths temps are cooling since 1979. The 2009 International Climate Change Convention, some 10,000 (real) scientists, meterologtists, climatologists have agreed that the so-called temp increase, if to occur, is not man-made.

      Health Care – worry is another gov't take over of the system, patient care, choice and keep my own as is!

      Mandate that all coal fired power plants install scrubbers to take out 92% of the particles thru the stack, as the San Juan, NM coal fired power plant does.

      Start planning and building Nuclear Power Plants -NOW!

      Rid of CO2 – I do not see any problem. Plant more trees to absorb the CO2 during the day, puts out Oxygen at night – DA. Is this not how plants work?

    36. Robert, New Orleans says:

      We're the ones being called ASTROTURF?!?!?!

      This bill is being written by the medical tourism bureau of Jordan (you know, that US-sponsored regime next to Israel, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq)! Our pain is their pleasure!

      Oh, them and the big banks. The banks know that 50+ trillion in unfunded liabilities for Medicare needs to fixed without destroying the dollar. Step one – establish health care monopoly. Step two – institute price controls and ration care!

    37. Pingback: Protests Reveal The New Civil Rights Issue: Ignoring The Will Of The Majority « Blog Entry « Dr. Melissa Clouthier

    38. john arizona says:

      Where did the government get the geniuses who wrote this health care bill? Karl Marx U?

      Nancy Pelosi isn't bright enough to write something like this herself, and Barney Goofy is too busy screwing up the banking industry. Who was it and who hired them???

    39. James Body says:

      Keep up the pressure on Congress. I would like an amendment that requires ALL federal govt employees to be under the plan. Also all public school employees from supertendent to the cafateria workers. Also all county and state employees. ALSO each and every union member. If such a bill is desirable then all citizens to be under the plan. ONLY exceptions to be purple heart warriors. Also excepted are all non citizens.

    40. Judith of The Great says:

      Mr. Jarvis, you think the fact that the economy ONLY lost 247,00 jobs is good news?

      Other statements from the same article in the New York Times these stats came from:

      We are going from massive job losses to just big job losses (this should get the Embarrassing Statement of the Year award)…

      …the recovery will be marked by a still-rising unemployment rate and tens of thousands of job losses each month until next year…

      Unemployment rate declined because 400,000 people gave up their search for work…(add these in the stats and unemployment stands at 16%)

      Businesses are expected to keep cutting positions through the rest of the year…

      …hundreds of thousands more workers are likely to lose their jobs, well into next year…(the Administration still says the unemployment rate will go to 10% by next year.)

      So the American economy shed JUST 247,000 jobs last month…

      (I'm sure the people who lost these jobs feel better now that the unemployment rate fell 1/10 of a percent. How wonderful !!! )

      Now, how will the several hundred thousand people feel who will lose their jobs this month? Happy???

      Relieved?

      Reported today that Mr. Gibbs said "I would describe the report that came out today as the least bad report that we've had in a year (this should receive the Second Most Embarrassing Statement of the Year award!)

      Feel like going out and buying a new car or a new home now?

      Bottom line, Mr. Jarvis, get the entire story, then you can claim real knowledge.

    41. william boyer cincin says:

      I think it is amusing to hear the Great Unifier, a man who never stops talking, tell those of us who disagree with him to be quiet. I wish that HE would stop whining about having inherited a mess. He wanted the job; he has it. He should stop blaming others and get on with it.

    42. Pingback: The Empire Strikes Back

    43. Pingback: NEXT TEA PARTY: AGAINST OBAMACARE – August 22, 2009 (plus protest videos) « FactReal

    44. Maria in Pennsylvani says:

      I'm 79 yrs old.I had surgery @74 and Cataract surgery @ 78.

      I am in good health and I worry my Children and GrandChildren will not be so lucky because of Obamas limited care over 65 yrs old.

    45. Pingback: » Financial News Update - 08/07/09 NoisyRoom.net: Where liberty dwells, there is my country…

    46. Pingback: Republicans Responsible for Mess | Defense of the Republic

    47. Pingback: President Obama Calls For His ‘Brownshirts’ « An Angeleno’s View of the World

    48. marcia says:

      GOD please grant our nation repentance and please help us to control our anger and please forgive the leaders of this nation for their stiff neck GOD please bring down the pride of our leaders,and to be people who serve not be served…

    49. yankee doodle says:

      Following is a copy of the email I sent in response to the solicitation of "fishy" information on the health care reform bill. Every American who defies this act of censoring our Constitutional rights should send a similar email and overwhelm their system!

      Email address is: flag@whitehouse.gov

      (unless they have recently changed it)

      In response to your request, I have discovered some very "FISHY" information regarding Obama's health care reform. It is listed below for your convenience. It appears to be as "FISHY" as the ones who are trying to get the American people to swallow it hook, line and sinker. Guess what … we TEXANS aren't bitin' !!!

      I sincerely hope this email adds congestion to this sinister operation which clearly infringes on the freedoms and liberties of American citizens. Urging Americans to snitch on their fellow-citizens simply because they disagree with the agenda of a political party is a blatant blow against our Constitution! While the Armed Forces of this great nation are abroad placing their lives in harm's way to banish totalitarianism … the staff of the President of these United States instigates an operation that is in its very nature a totalitarian maneuver. But I am delighted to inform you that there are still Americans in this country who will not sit idly by and allow such extremism without protest!

      That is exactly what I wish to do with this email … register my PROTEST. Both against the dangerous health care reform legislation that is being railroaded through congress, AND the unconstitutional ploy of the White House staff vainly attempting to deny America's citizenry the right to express dissent toward the decisions and actions of its elected governmental servants.

      CAUTION: Hold your noses … the following information is extremely "FISHY" …

      • Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!

      • Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!

      • Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)

      • Page 42: The “Health Choices Commissioner” will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.

      • Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.

      • Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Health card.

      • Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.

      • Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)

      • Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to g overnment rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.

      • Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)

      • Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens

      • Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.

      • Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.

      • Page 124: No company can sue the government for pr ice-fixing. No “judicial review” is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.

      • Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.

      • Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.

      • Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their familie s.

      • Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll

      • Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll

      • Page 167: Any individual who doesn’t’ have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.

      • Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).

      • Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.

      • Page 203: “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” Yes, it really says that.

      • Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected.”

      • Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you’ll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)

      • Page 253: Government sets value of doctors’ time, their professional judgment, etc.

      • Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.

      =E 2 Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.

      • Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!

      • Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.

      • Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.

      • Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!

      • Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.

      • Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on “community” input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.

      • Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.

      • Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.

      • Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals..

      • Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).

      • Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?

      • Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers=2 0of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.

      • Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.

      • Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.

      • Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient’s health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.

      • Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.

      • Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.

      • Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.

      • Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.

      • Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.

    50. Kit P CA. says:

      Right on Robert Reilly! What a great new slogan that would be … "Taxation with Misrepresentation". I want to put that on a tee shirt and sell it. I agree too regarding the GOP. I think of them as just as much the bad guys as the others. I am still a life long conservative but I intend to show up at town meetings of both

      Dems and Republicans because they are both complete screw ups. I will ask the questions they want to avoid, and they will know the hostility they have been ignoring. I would love to send a message to SEIU too. Where I work I am told there is no choice but to join. Typical. Well if they are going to absorb Conservatives they should know that they have!

    51. Pingback: Mr. Conservative » Obama White House Sends In the Thugs

    52. Harry, Illinois says:

      SUGGESTION:

      Since this is all about the people and what they want or don't want, why are we allowing our Representatives in Washington to dictate to us? After all, they are not giving us FAIR, JUST and HONEST representation any longer, nor do they want to participate in the plans that they propose but do not want to read.

      All they care about is who will contribute to their couffers. We are having a National Elelection next year. Lets put it on the ballot to determine if this is what the American people want and how it should be implemented. And then we can go from there to determine the appropriate agenda. If it is determined that National Healtcare is the choice of the people, than we can begin the process.

      No plan can be offered unless it is based upon Non-Partisan unity. None of this 455 in favor and 0 against. Unless it has at least a 60/40 vote the bill cannot pass. Many of you may say this will take forever, but at least we will get something that represents the peoples wishes and not Washington's. And by the way If Public health care is chosen, the Representatives in Washington and their families must be joined in the plan. No more what's good for the people is not good for Washington. From now on all public plans MUST include our representatives or we don't have a plan.

    53. Spiritof76 says:

      To Michael Lehene of Portland,OR.

      Thanks for listing the highlights of first 500 pages of the HR 3200. We needed precisely this type of description.

      If we don't take control of this developing situation by standing strong against the goons in and out of the White House, we have lost our country. We are Venezuela of north.

      Please attend a mass rally planned in Wasington DC on 9/12 (Saturday). We must show our force and confront the evil that we are facing.

      It is a three-day event, from 9/10-9/12. I urge everyone that is a member of Heritage Foundation and those the blog here to attend that rally.

      Senior citiens, Obamacare means a cynide pill and a glass of water for you to take your "pains" away. Look at all his commissars at the White House. Some of them have advocated using drinking water to sterilize the population. Some have advocated that denying health benefits to the senior citizens is proper value judgment.

      America, please wake up.

    54. Tim, Connecticut says:

      This is proof that Obama should be impeached!

    55. Phillip, Atlanta Ga says:

      LET'S NET THIS HEALTH CARE ISSUE OUT!!!

      ObamaCare has nothing whatsoever to do with health care. The libs are using health care as a vehicle attempting to disguise their true colors. (Libs are so transparent) The Libs do not care about your health. This is all about control and power. When the government placates 18% of the economy with a bureaucracy that will choke on incompetency and corruption then they will have you right where they want you….totally dependent. If the government controls your health care… they control you. If you care about your freedom then let your voices be loud and clear by actively opposing this hideous attempt to gain their control over you.

    56. dr_donn says:

      I pray one of these union or ACORN goons even look like they want to put their hands on me. I will not be nice.

    57. paul collins.the vil says:

      As I have said before we better start regaining control in 2010 or we will become a third world contry by the end of obama's term. At that point he will declare himself president for life.This statment that the economy is improving is stupid.How can unempolyment increase and the

      % decrease.Not only are they liars, but also are dumb at math.They say they are the smartest,well I would hate to see them if they were the dumbest.

    58. Marilyn, Florida says:

      TERM LIMITS FOR CONGRESS. Make it retroactive and stop the madness. Health care, cap & trade, acorn & union bullies. Is this America or Venezuela?

    59. robert miller says:

      You know I was thinking about what they want us to accept.

      First they want to enact a new public insurance plan. They tell us it will just compete with private insurance. BUT………

      They never tell us what the premiums will be for the public option. The Feds have deep, very deep pockets. If they want to use the public as a business loss leader, they can. They can under cut any private insurance premium and do it forever.

      Plus they even have more advantages………..

      A Federal insurance business would not:

      Pay income tax

      Pay State tax

      Pay local tax

      Pay liability insurance (due to Federal immunity protection of suits)

      State Premium tax

      Property tax

      Set aside reserve/surplus money as required under State insurance laws

      Federal government doesn't need to raise capital, they just raise taxes

      Not sure but I think the Federal government doesn't normally pay for postage

      The treasury department will be the plans own little accounts receivable department (paid for by taxpayers)

      The above are just a few reasons that a Federal Plan is not a competitor but uses the benefit of Federal monopoly of writing rules that benefit the Federal plan. There is no doubt that the $billions and $billions of costs to do business — that are required by private companies — costs that the Federal plan opts out of — will put the private companies out of business.

    60. robert miller says:

      To those people that like to recite WHO statistics such as we are 37th in the worlds medical care. Maybe they would also like to know some other WHO stats.

      Single payer advocates better read the WHO publications.

      http://www.who.int/whr/2000/en/whr00_dgmessage_en… "

      Page ix

      Within governments, many health ministries focus on the public sector often disregarding the frequently much larger – private finance and provision of care. A growing challenge is for governments to harness the energies of the private and voluntary sectors in achieving better levels of health systems performance, while offsetting the failures of private markets." The above doesn't exactly say go toward single payer does it? Obama wants to go 180 degrees opposite of what the previous sentence. So when Obama sites WHO stats, maybe someone will tell him the rest of the story.

      Rationing care? What does the WHO say?

      http://www.who.int/whr/2000/en/whr00_dgmessage_en… "

      Page Xiii

      "It implies explicit choice of priorities among interventions, respecting the ethical principle that it may be necessary and efficient to ration services, but that it is inadmissible to exclude whole groups of the population."

      Page Xiv

      " This report means to stimulate public policies that acknowledge the constraints governments face. If services are to be provided for all, then not all services can be provided."

    61. Pingback: Saturday, August 8, 2009 — ExposeTheMedia.com

    62. Jim Mcfarlane, Michi says:

      The President doesn't want those who created the mess speaking up. He must mean, of course, Carter, Clinton,Frank Raines and Barney Frank. I must agree with him. I'd like them to shut up as well.

    63. Traci, Houston says:

      to Victoria, Florida – "Name calling and showing disrespect is not going to accomplish anything. The best thing to do is to write or e-mail your congress and senate leaders regardless who is for health reform or not. America, under the guidens of ” in God we trust” need to pray more and speak with honor and respect to all those in authority over us."

      I agree with you for the most part, and yes, in a perfect world, sending letters and e-mails would be enough. However, a lot of our "representatives" ARE NOT LISTENING. It is not in a conservative's nature to get in anyone's face about anything, and now we're in the unhappy position of needing to do just that in order to be heard. Too many people are being swept under the rug and it's frightening. George Bush celebrated the freedom of his countrymen to say and do what they wanted when asked about his chief stalker, Cindy Sheehan. This current president, instead, denegrates dissenters. He's acting like a petulant step-parent who knows his step-children are smarter and bigger than he is and he needs to put them in their place by whatever means at his disposal. I am offended by the way we're being characterized by a bunch of people who really should know better.

      And THEY need to remember that the only authority they have over us is what we allow them to have. They need to remember that we are their bosses, NOT their subjects.

    64. Chip, California says:

      See how Obama has used his vulgar thugs in the SEIU to intimidate and displace the DECENT citizens opposing his plans for a communist revolution? Just what in the world do you think he might do with that MILLION-PERSON civil force he wants to create?

    65. eva, new jersey says:

      this is utterly astounding! But it should not be surprising to anyone who paid attention during the campaign; he told us what he was going to do. And his total lack of any experience in running anything, plus his shady and questionable background (and friends) should have by any common sense sent off warning bells in people's heads. How on earth this racist traitor and constitution violator ever got elected is mind-boggling!!I just hope it's not too late to stop him.

    66. Michele, Spokane, Wa says:

      America is waking up! They work for us and are paid by us! There is no way they are shoving this Health Care Government Take Over down our throats!

      Speak your mind everyone, you still live in America!

    67. md, Elk Grove, CA says:

      For those who say write and allow your voice to be heard, let me offer my two cents.

      When I write to Boxer, the replies are always thanks for agreeing with and supporting me (I haven't and don't!) – clearly my voice does not matter to her or her staff and is categorizied with the left wing loonies. My e-mails to Pelosi at speaker of the house are now returned as undeliverable – my opinion no longer matters to her!

      Senator Feinstein acknoledges my dissent and goes on to reiterate her position, I can appreciate her honesty. Representative Lungren invites all to attend his scheduled town hall meeting for open discussion and I am truly grateful for his voice of reason in the House of Misrepresentation.

      The liberal elite is choosing to ignore the voice of the people. The local rag reports the injustice of Chavez' regime, what about the Obama regime? I'm much more concerned with our national move to socialism than I am of Chavez.

      When the politicans in power choose to employ tactics of mis-information and ignore common people, what choices do I have?

      I proudly fly the Gadsden Flag under the Flag of the United States of America and encourage others to as well. I've spoken with others who have taken to flying the American Flag upside down in distress. I share the sentiment.

      How do we alter the political landscape so Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Boxer and others listen? I fear that if we allow Washington to continue, our country will be irrepairably harmed and there will be no return to our former glory.

      The policies of this administration seem bent on bring our great country down to the level of other countries in the name of fairness! What is wrong with being best? What is wrong with loving God and appreciating what our forefathers gave for our freedoms? What is wromg with believing in the Constitution? What is wrong with being a Patriot?

      I love our Country. I believe in accountability and self direction. I know I am more qualified that our government to make choices that positively impact my family and future. I know I can better decide than our government on how and where donations are spent with local charity.

      I need the government to responsibly spend as little of my money as possible – that's all I ask. That and to end the frivolous lawsuits that endanger our society and increase costs for all when only the lawyers bring suit benefit. Well, OK, I also want our government to actually listen and give a damn instead of asking me to be quiet and to stop taking money from the drug companies because I disagree. Gimme a break Obama, Pelosi, Boxer, Reid… . .

    68. Darryl in NH says:

      The majority voted for change-change is coming at the expense of our freedom. Vote out the congressman and women in the next election and send Obama the message that the change he wants is not the change Americans want!

    69. Doug Hollywood FL: says:

      I really think we as the american people who elected these idiots to work for us, should demand the same healthcare congress and the senate get at the tax payers expense. And the american people should demand that congress receive the same health care there trying to give the american people

    70. Robert, Florida says:

      Gladney was not beat up, he did not need to be hospitalized, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3aTQt1XEWY he's the man in the brown shirt gets up and walks around (you see him at the center of the frame at 1:10). At 0:42 he says to the SEIU man: "why did you hit me… why did you hit *my hands*? Did I bother you?"

      See with your own eyes, speak with your own mouth…

    71. Pingback: News for 08/10/09 | RagingElephants.org

    72. Dennis A. Social Cir says:

      It is funny how the dems and obama turn on the people that do not want their health care, we all become non-American. I guess this is the way of a socialist run government. It really seems like a communist run government, if you disagree never let it be known. Well put me on the list as one that thinks the healt care package is all BS, Congress and obama will not be under the "guvernment" plan because it is not good enough. Wonder why????

      THE ELECTION IS COMING IN 2010, PEOPLE NEED TO VOTE THSES THUGS OUT OF OFFICE AND BACK IN THE STREET. WHILE WE DO THAT LETS PUSH FOR A TERM LIMIT, NO ONE NEEDS TO STAY IN OFFICE AND LIVE AT OUR EXPENSE FOR 30-40 YEARS, NO ONE.

    73. John says:

      Dear Mr. President,

      I am in the military and served my country in the last 16 years. I respecfully request you not to destroy the perfect union in which our forefathers created and those who spilled blood to defend our perfect union. My children and other family's children, who will inherently pay for all of the Government Program you have created and will create in the future, will destroy their future with debt as far as I can see. I respected the will of the people last election (2008) and I will continue to follow your orders. However, I love my country and my family so much that I have volunteered to serve in Afghanistan (2006) and Iraq (2009). I continue to see many patriots like myself and others fallen brothers who continue to serve to keep the United States the last beacon of hope around the world. Romans, Greeks, and the British Empire did not last 1,000 years. During those great Empire's history, controlling the society were a recepie for disaster. History are deemed to repeat itself. I ask you Mr. President, "Were you elected to serve by the people or for the People". I will not disrespect the Commander in Chief but I will speak loudly for my country and for my children against the Washington overbearring control that they are going to impose. Four years is a long time and our citizens needs to stand up to the tyranny of Washington. We in the military are standing up to the tyranny around the world. As our hands are tied in speaking critically about the Commander in Chief, I ask the great citizens (U.S. Citizens not illegally) of the U.S. to continue to fight this Government as we continue to protect your freedom at home and abroad. Thank you Heritage Foundation.

      V/R

      J. V.

    74. Ken St Louis says:

      All Americans who eat out should ask any restaurant they are considering to eat at if they employ members of the SEIU, ( service employeees international union ) if the answer is yes, boycott those restaurants!! Simple thing to do, and it will get their attention, and maybe they'll drop the union!

    75. Pingback: USAToday: Nancy Pelosi Says Townhall Protesters are “Un-American” – Is This the Change We are Supposed to Believe In? « American Missive

    76. Pingback: Liberally Conservative » Blog Archive » Since When Is Free Speech Un-American?

    77. PM Dooling, Detroit says:

      Is there a website that will tell us where town hall meetings are taking place?

    78. Linda, Rhode Island says:

      “If you get hit, we will punch back twice as hard,” Messina said, according to an official who attended the meeting.

      Well, that's proof enough for the ignorant folk, hmm?

      "Somebody said that somebody else said…"

      I would suggest researching this matter more thoroughly rather than relying on a handful of biased, rabble-rousing web sites, people!

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