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  • Keep DREAMin'

    This past week, we live-blogged about Secretary of Homeland Security Janet Napolitano’s admission during a Senate hearing that she still supports the Dream Act, a bill that would grant amnesty to individuals unlawfully in the United States who arrived before the age of 16. Amnesty advocates like America’s Voice are now touting the Secretary’s answer as a sign that the Obama administration will move for a full amnesty this year.

    Despite its humanitarian pitch, the DREAM Act is bad public policy. Heritage fellow James Carafano wrote in 2007:

    The bill would allow applicants to immediately receive conditional legal status, including eligibility for federal benefits like student loans.

    The DREAM Act is not a new legislative proposal developed in the wake of the amnesty bill’s collapse earlier this year; the DREAM Act was first proposed five years ago. Its implications for undermining the enforcement of U.S. immigration laws were so obvious that the measure was never voted out of the Senate Judiciary Committee.

    This bill, regardless of the humanitarian goals claimed by its supporters, would further undermine efforts to enforce immigration laws and border security. It would make the task of securing the U.S.-Mexican border more difficult, and it would lead to higher costs for the state and local governments that bear much of the fiscal burden of unlawful presence.

    Posted in Security [slideshow_deploy]

    27 Responses to Keep DREAMin'

    1. Murph, Seattle says:

      Apparently, Dreams are not for American citizens and taxpayers. To think that this bill was even proposed, let alone that it might be passed is unbelievable. What can the average citizen do to protest things like this? Didn't Janet Napolitano say that anyone who participated in the Tea Parties should be labeled as domestic terrorists? Talk about silencing dissenting voices!

    2. Angel, Los Angeles says:

      you know these kids can't help the situation that they're in…i think they all know there breaking the law by being here…but who knew that you could be considered illegal in a place were you've grown up all the life you knew.

    3. Martin, Los Angeles says:

      Lets go through this mediocre "article" piece by piece; which by the way took no time to "write," as the author decided to just copy-paste someone else's work, probably too lazy to READ the whole bill and THEN make inferences regarding the possible advantages and disadvantages the bill would bring.

      "The bill would allow applicants to immediately receive conditional legal status, including eligibility for federal benefits like student loans."

      Key words, conditional status. Meaning if throughout the conditional period of 6 years the applicant commits crimes, breaks the conditions of the contract or fails to meet requirements, such as military service, or a completed degree, they would be denied permanent residency and possibly deported. What's so outrages about that?

      Again key words: Students and loans. "Eligibility for federal benefits like student loans." That's right, a loan (paid back, not free money), loans are a must when students can't afford to pay for college up front. In addition, since this bill is intended to help students, why would you deny them the ability to achieve their academic goals? This bill would not allow students to receive any federal grants, state grants or financial aid through the universities. The only "federal benefits" that would be given are student loans and the ability to participate in work-study programs.

      "The DREAM Act is not a new legislative proposal developed in the wake of the amnesty bill’s collapse earlier this year; the DREAM Act was first proposed five years ago. Its implications for undermining the enforcement of U.S. immigration laws were so obvious that the measure was never voted out of the Senate Judiciary Committee."

      Wrong with facts again, the original bill was introduced in 2001.

      How does this bill "further undermine efforts to enforce immigration laws and border security"? The border can be enforced independently from this bill, whether it passes or not will not make a difference in the way the border issue is handled, to try and demonize this bill as something that would cause a security threat is quite frankly, stupid. In addition, nothing in this bill takes funds from border security or immigration law enforcement.

      Again I fail to understand how this bill would make it more difficult to secure the US-Mexican border. The bill amends nothing regarding national security or border enforcement.

      "it would lead to higher costs for the state and local governments that bear much of the fiscal burden of unlawful presence."

      If approximately 1 million DREAM Act beneficiaries became legal citizens, got an education, and held higher paying jobs. Isn't that LOWERING the number of people here illegally? So then how does this equate to higher costs to states and local governments (from illegal aliens)? If more people are working legally and paying their dues to the IRS, this would LOWER the burden to all tax paying American citizens.

      To put it simply, there is more good that can come from passing this bill than there is bad. Research has shown that minorities in low-income communities are more prone to be involved with crime, drug use and health care service abuse. So why then do you guys insist on keeping them there? Most kids that will benefit from this bill are motivated individuals who have grown up here all their lives and just want get ahead in life. Being an American citizen doesn't come from a worthless piece of paper, otherwise known as a birth certificate; It comes from character, morals, values, norms and assimilation to the American tradition and culture, characteristics that most DREAM Act beneficiaries have.

      By the way, this article did nothing to change my view of the DREAM Act bill; however, it did make me realize how lazy people have become, as they refuse to do their job properly. Next time try finding real data, estimates and even opinions from real experts in the field. Yes I'm talking to you Conn.

    4. Bill, Rancho Cucamon says:

      I don't understand the analysis for the conclusion given that the Dream act is bad public policy that openly disses current citizens and thumbs it's nose at their opinion. Nor on how it will be an extra cost.

      There is no formal paperwork set yet for what the process would be like for the participants in the dream act. If there are any costs that states have to bear, they should just be passed on to the applicant.

      As far as bad policy goes, have you seen the status quo?

      It would be far more productive if whatever percentage of the immigrants who are highly motivated and intelligent and willing to go to school are allowed to do so, and Most important, if they are allowed to Work after graduation. People need to understand that a highly educated person (no matter what origin) has a relatively bright future in other regions besides the US (granted most wish to stay because of course the US is an amazing place to live at/work). If after tens of thousands in subsidized education, the best our federal government can do is to kick them out, then it is only Us who are losing. It's best to keep these people with Bachelor's, Masters and so on within the country and have them pay back into society. This is what they wish to do. People with college education do not live off of welfare or social security – they put into it.

      I am not saying all immigrants are high educated/productive although most serve a purpose – be it agriculture, food service or whatever. I am most definitely a proponent for the educated, motivated and productive ones to stay and help build and expand our great society. Scientists, engineers, lawyers, social workers – they are all a help not a burden.

      As for the rest go, the Dream act encourages them to join the military if they do not wish to attend college. I do not think I have to expand on what our military does, or why it is important, and why we need new recruits…

      Please enlighten me as to why an increase in the number of tax paying, and productive US residents is bad policy…especially when you consider our demographic issue of the coming decades and social security + medicare/aid costs.

    5. Nazim Hussein Haq, N says:

      I just don’t get it.

      All the people saying punish the children because the father must learn that there are consequences for him breaking the law, and one way to “get at him” is to punish his family aswell.

      Another similar but circular argument says, “We don’t want to REWARD the parents for their law-breaking.”

      Firstly it is WRONG morally, consciously, legally to punish someone else for the apparent transgression of another. No RELIGIOUS theology in this world whether it be Zoroastrianism, Islam, Bahai’, Judaism, Hinduism, Christianity, Buddhism, Sikhism, Confucionism, Taoism, Doaism, etc. ever holds someone else accountable for the sins of another. None.

      And no legal nation does the same practice, except Israel which demolishes the extended family house of a bomber, as punishment for his crime. And that is why Israel acts immorally, reaps world’s scorn, and contradicts its own Judaic ethical principles in doing so.

      In this country, many laws are created for the protection and well-being of the children, who are vulnerable and easily exploitable by a parent’s actions (if a parent so chooses).

      Thus if a father breaks the law with his child besides him, the punishment would befall the one committing the crime, not the passive party who was simply there because of his father’s actions. How do you hold a child responsible for the actions of his parents? Thus immigration law in this regard is brutally unfair and unAmerican.

      As an immigrant child who is married to an American bred and born citizen from Indiana and who pays more than his fair share of taxes every April, this is one law (The DREAM Act) that is more than “lawbreaking,” it goes to the heart of what it means to be an American and hold its values of justice.

      Laws are made by man for the general welfare of man. When the literalists argue our “laws were broken” then I say change the law. If the law is not serving its purpose and are inherently unfair, it can be changed…it is not something set in stone.

      If there are laws punishing the children for the action of lawbreakers…which by every moral and religious code is inherently unfair we must change it as we did segregation, women’s right to vote, and even poll taxing the minority.

      And the arguments of ‘amnesty’ ‘rewarding lawbreaking’ from the same crowd on this issue makes one wonder of the true motivation of someone opposing the fair treatment of undocumented immigrant children. If they can recycle their trite, same-old argument for an issue as complex and urgent as this, they have no argument plain and simple.

      Pass the DREAM Act; its the right to do even for a cold-heart center-right, conservative think tank like yours.

    6. Carmen, Phoenix says:

      The DREAM act is a wonderful proposal that will bring valuable human resources to our communities. The DREAMers in universities nation wide have better test scores and grades than their citizen peers. We are not doing charity by providing a path to legalization to the young students. We will need more professionals to substitute the professionals that belong to the baby boom generation and aging population of the USA. If implemented we will be bringing American educated professionals to the labor pool that share our holidays, communities, churches, cities, etc since childhood.

      They are as American as anybody else and they are difficult to spot because many people would assume they are American by birth.

      STOP THE MISINFORMATION. Immigrants pay taxes. Your government (Bush's included) provided ITIN numbers so the immigrant workers pay taxes.

      The immigrant students also are required to belong (males only) to the selective service and many will be ready to be part of the armed forces of our country only if giving the chance to serve.

    7. alex says:

      this bill is necessary to further improve the US economy, are you people stupid or just too redneck to realize this ??

      those illegal students were brought into the US as kids it was not their intention to come here illegally it's the parents fault

      if passed the US will benefit from more professionals and people in the military

    8. Sara Arizona says:

      Dreams are for anyone and everyone. My parents brought me here when I was two and up until I graduated from high school I thought I was born here. Funny thing is even when my parents told me I was an undocumented alien I still felt American, why wouldn't I? I speak English, the only National Anthem I know is the U.S., and I definitely do not blame my parents for bringing me here. Now I am a Senior in college and still undocumented, however, I will not be able to afford my last year because I am being charged out of state tuition. It doesn't matter that I have a great GPA or that I have been an outstanding person the only thing that matters to certain people is that I don't have a paper that says I am a citizen. Since I do not qualify for aid my dream of finishing college will have to be put on hold.

    9. Jordan, Orange Count says:

      Its interesting to think why anyone would oppose a bill like the Dream Act. After investing money into these children from k-12th grade we wont let them contribute back by letting them work legally and pay taxes to get a return for what we already invested in them? The bill states that they are to finish two years of college or two years in the military and have good moral behavior. Isn't that the kind of immigrants we want? If we were to pass some sort of immigration reform, wouldn't this bill be a great way to separate the wheat from the tares. Send the ones that don't want to contribute home, but the ones that are willing to progress may stay. After all these aren't law breaking immigrants, remember their parents brought them. How can a two or three year old break a law? These kids had no choice. unless you think a 10 or 11 year old can make a living in Mexico by himself. This bill makes perfect sense. They're not going anywhere, might as well make the best of what we got.

    10. Malcolm Fernandes says:

      With hope and that ever burning will of Fire we do not give up.

      The dream act will pass becasue it is the right ting to do

    11. Gerar, Florida says:

      many kids like me are dreaming for this to be passed, many kids like me for example have been A+ students all their academic history and to know that because of this, at the age of 18-19 its all gone because college/university/higher education cannot be obtained just devastates my life.

      i am currently hoping this act is passed, so i can happily finish high school, that i have attended since 9th grade, not to mention middle school, and elementary school here in the same city.

      *think about how you would feel if your life was ripped from you and you had no choice over it, would you allow it? or would you want this act to be passed?*

      DREAM ACT IS A MUST! to keep many in the right track, and to better America.

    12. LISA JOHNSON says:

      Well in my point of view as now these kids are here in the country and they are young generation, We need to think for our country future and raise them as New generation for USA. so we can get help in future, AS per IMMIGRANT this coutry if based on Immigrant if we see around in any department,school, hospital, any where you see,,,,

    13. Keven, San Francisco says:

      this entire article is full of right wing nut job fear mongering.

      The Dream Act would create a better America. What sense does it make to deny qualified students who have earned a K-12 education to obtain a college degree?

      college degree = higher tax paying citizen = more for all.

      there is no way this would undermine the immigration enforcement efforts. The Dream Act will not encourage more children (often time infants) to make the 60 mile walk across the Arizona Desert to enter this country by the only means available to them.

    14. Barb -mn says:

      Gerar,

      Many lives are being ripped away by costs like this, from crimes committed. If parents or anybody break any law, they pay the consequences. That is civil law of a civil society. Civil law is the only law all mankind is treated equally under. What happens to the children is the consequence of the parents crime. It's harsh, but civil law (tough love), builds solid, positive human qualities, abilities and knowledge. Reasonability, rationality, practical choices.

      I'm sure you'll be allowed to continue, as our civil law is diminishing and I wish you well in working for your American dream with the honor and dignity to live above government handouts.

      Lisa,

      This country was built by immigrants that did for themselves. Figured out what their responsibilities of their personal lives and choices, live up to them and held accountable to them without infringing.

      Keven,

      Instead of using all that energy, making that 60 mile walk across the Arizona Desert to enter this country illegally, why don't they just use that energy to follow the law? It would be better for all. Too much is given away to an expectation by the abuse of authority of government. It is unfair, bias, discriminating, racist. The government runs the opposite of the principles of this country.

    15. Martin, Los Angeles says:

      Barb -mn,

      I think you seem to be missing the point. The issues now is not why people decide to break the law in order to come to America. The issue is whether it's correct to punish kids for the mistakes their parents made. I've heard almost every single argument out there about kids in America having to suffer when their parents commit crimes (Like murder, robbery, etc.) and how they have no choice but to suffer because their parents committed a crime. But the point that's missed here is that they aren't held back from creating a successful life for themselves. Sure they might be held back in an emotional way because their parents are no longer with them, but they still have the ability to prosper from the situation. There is a big difference between them and us. We are punished for a crime we did not commit in a very different way. We are told that if we leave the country, our home, we would be banned for up to ten years. If we stay and decide to live in the shadows, we are forced to live a life of poverty as most jobs won't pay more than minimum wage (when working under the table, higher paying jobs would most likely have a background check and all that stuff). So then the question becomes, what do we do? You (the American citizen) have the power to change that for us. You can give us the opportunity to succeed and contribute to society. If on the other hand we stay and live in the shadows, we are more likely to use up services that cost American tax payers millions and millions of dollars a year. I can imagine what most people see this bill as, they see it as nothing more than another amnesty bill. But is it really amnesty? Amnesty is a pardon for a crime committed, yet most of us were brought at a very young age. How do you pardon a person who has done nothing wrong? This bill is not another amnesty. It's a bill that would give most of us (DREAM Act beneficiaries) the title of American Citizens, something we feel deep inside we really are.

    16. Bill, RC says:

      To Barb from MN,

      I think you are mistaken. The bill is not about handouts and pitty, it's really meant to have immigrants pay back. This isn't an amnesty for everyone but only those who go to college or join the military.

      People love to talk about chain migration, yet it is not backed up through academic studies. I forget the exact rate but basically, for each immigrant that comes in, he/she in turn sponsors (on average) something like 1.3 other people – and in general it's not exactly their 80 year old grandmother they are bringing in but rather someone else that is young, fit, motivated and willing to work. These are people that pay into the system not live from.

      Do some quick research on our demographic crisis – we have a massive problem on the horizon as the ratio of retired/working changes. The country cannot afford to lose people that have grown up in the US since childhood and hold American values, knowledge and skills.

      Yes, we are a nation of laws, and our laws should me followed. But many of our laws are antiquated (no question about that) and our entire immigration system falls under this category. Other developed nations allow immigrants in on the basis of merit, based on a point system. The more skilled you are, the higher likelihood you have of coming in. In the US since the 60's, the system has been based on family ties which is rather stupid. The bill proposal could be a small step towards a reform of the big picture – one that would eventually allow us to bring in more engineers, scientists and doctors and so on as many other nations are currently doing.

    17. Barb -mn says:

      Thank you for your comments.

      When it comes to children being punished for the crime or crimes of their parents, I can't think of a worse thing a parent can do to or teach their children. Except for putting the many burdens and costs on others. To say it is the issue of whether it is correct or not to punish the children is not right to put on anyone but the parents. I am sorry.

      Please don't hold me accountable of holding someone I don't know or took part in giving life to, from succeeding in this country, back. An opportunity takes personal motivation, endurance, responsibilities, practical choices and a driven will. Like life, and not infringing. It was a freedom in this country. To take on the opportunities available in the free market. Now becoming government jobs where your mind will only go so far. No government employees' individual potential will ever be reached working for government. It isn't worth it to find out the American colleges with government subsidies for free tuition paid by those at no benefit, are being indoctrinated into opposites of American principles. We have children in public school where they are deprogrammed when necessary. As history (known) has been taught by deception, immigrants aren't being educated the truth. the American principles and values are diminishing daily as the president reminds us daily of how weak and irresponsible the people of this country are. With nobody but government to nurture till death. What you suggest and what is seen are two different things and what is seen is much more damaging and believable and costly.

      As this country is hurting tremendously from unemployment and continuous layoffs, this would be a great opportunity to take some of what has been learned here and bring it back to their country of origin. This country needs all the jobs and opportunities available for the people of this country. You can see what this is doing to us. Turning people against each other. The deception of government funding for immigration legal and not is sickening. And as a truer need for engineers, scientists and doctors is in Mexico.

      Please understand, I appreciate and respect all human creation. I believe we all have the same abilities, it's abilities we use to the level we choose that makes us individuals and different. I believe all human life have minds of reason developing since birth. Where equality to all mankind is under civil rule and law and expected by all citizens to maintain a stable civil society. It's the freedom to take our lives as individuals and what it takes, as individuals to get there regardless of any issue that may be faced. Or freedom to change course. It's the endurance to move on within our responsibilities. As individuals to figure things out for ourselves without the government teat.

      With all due respect, the bill is hearsay. It, like many others won't be followed or understood the same by all. Many cross the line as government holds their hand firmly with innocent taxpayers money. Loopholes galore. Somebody's living off the system as the government creates "crisis." There are people here who have always worked to live independently regardless of their financial situation, struggles or circumstances. The worst slap in the face, that can happen to people is the government taxation with nothing but misrepresentation FORCING the people's independence into the hands of government dependency due solely on government over taxation and unfair handouts where it is expected of others to do for themselves should be expected of all equally. This would clean up the majority of financial problems in this country.

    18. Danny says:

      The Dream Act will support millions of kids and young adults, like me, who came into this country without even knowing this would be a problem, in which, our parents, made the mistake of not dealing with immigration the correct way, or even getting screwed by lawyers.

      I'm just going to tell you a little bit of me. I've been working since I was 15, computers, I learned how to program several languages all by my self, graduated high school with a great GPA and a great SAT score (not trying to brag), but when it came to getting my diploma, that was it, it was all about waiting, lawyers screwed us over, stealing money from me and my parents, and now I'm 23 years old, my parents and siblings finally got their residence, but I'm out of that since I'm over 21, and the Child Act didn't cover me. I've been here for 15 years, with nobody in my native country to go back to, I've been working really hard, for NOTHING, and you know what? It sucks, big time.

      The main reason why I'm such in a bad place was due to the cause of being screwed by 2 different AMERICAN-BORN lawyers, not due to not following the rules correctly. I came legally into this country, my parents tried following all the rules, but there comes a point in which some things get out of hand. I, just like other beneficiaries of the dream act, did not choose voluntarily to come into this country, we were brought here when we were kids, we grew up here, we could say english is our primary language, we just need the OPORTUNITY, nothing else, to educate our selves, work, pay taxes (which, I DO), and then give back to this country.

      Now you tell me what's fair!

    19. Barb -mn says:

      Why did you need lawyers? As you stated, you came in legally, why would you need the "dream act?" Why is my child neglected a college education due to cost while you get it for free with my money? Do you get any government hand-outs or are you living within your own free will, at your own expense? If you get anything from government (taxpayers) any living expenses (medical, dental, education, free food, housing, etc.) paid for not from your pocket, you're giving nothing back to this country. What immigrants can do for this country is do for themselves at their own expense. Innovate free market, capitalist businesses. Determine their own goals. Fulfill their own potential. No hand of government necessary. Oh, and follow the laws so children won't be left to pay the consequences. That's what's fair.

      It's not easy doing things on your own but it's right as a human life. Most successful people worked hard getting to where they're at with no government hand-outs. Their success isn't anyone's job to be jealous of, like the president. A person is inspired and builds determination and motivation that you can do just as good if not better regardless of your humanity. As many use this as an excuse to not getting to where they want to be. It is wrong to look at government for any type of dependency but because the majority of this country became dependent, it will swallow the rest of us. Please, do what's fair. Don't let the government take away the ability to live freely and independently. It's up to you.

    20. Danny says:

      I don't use any government money or expenses at all, don't want it, and that's not the reason why I support the DreamAct. I go to school, I pay it out of my pocket, with my own money that I work with, and believe me, it's not easy. I came here legally, my parents/siblings are legal, I'm not, and I'll tell you why in a second. Sometimes, lawyers are needed for immigration processes, they help (sometimes they screw you) with the process and in case there are problems. They made us wait 6 years for us to get a residence after petitioning for it 3 times, they made a mistake and didn't include me when it was finally approved, and know they can't because I'm over 21. I work, legally, I study, with my own money I make from work, I don't use or want any free money or government benefits, I just don't have a legal-status because of mistakes, that weren't mine or my parent's.

      Free money for school? No. Loans? maybe. legal status without worries? yes.

      Also, I agree with you when you say people need fulfill their own potential.

      Read the Dream Act fully, get to know it and it's beneficiaries, the Dream Act is not just for "illegals", it's for students of good conduct that can, and will give back to this country, not drain it, and that's why there's a "conditional" residency for 5-6 years.

    21. Barb -mn says:

      Dear Danny,

      I'd like to thank you and respect you for using your abilities and sticking to your responsibilities of freedom. Living independently and paying your own way. It shows true integrity. I still can't figure out if you're legal or not? But if all "the good" you say about yourself is true, please just think if every American and American immigrants had the same integrity and the same was expected of them. They do not, Danny. Where there is one of you there are millions of others who do not display the same integrity.

      In this state there are many dollars going to immigrants (of both status) that have been here for years. That are fully capable of making it on their own and as people in this country are expected to "figure things out for themselves." Although government thinks less of people and thrive on their weakness, it brings government alot of money when things aren't figured out by oneself. All Costs paid not from their pockets but OURS.

      Maybe not all are immigrant but people decided owning a home is a "right" or "rite". Owning a home is a privilege. There are public housing establishments where all sorts of exceptions are made. Public housing in our area are or were beautiful. But people moved in and now it's trashed. That is the same with housing. Because people don't use their own money for housing, they are more apt to neglect the care of the property. As is true in this state, this is visually observed. There is no city enforcement there once was. You wouldn't know that with the taxes we're forced to pay.

      People who can afford a home have a "right" to PURCHASE and in using their own money take pride in the upkeep. But look what happened to the "right" to own. People jumped into a house (some newly built) and called it their own while the rest of us are footing their bills, and paying OUR bills living in our humble home who's value is going down yet property taxes going up. Because of over taxation of the government trying to meet everyone's complaints and appeasing them with costly programs from infancy to adulthood, piling on pre-through college ed, NONE IS FAIR. WE CAN'T AFFORD TO STAY AND WE CAN'T AFFORD TO MOVE. Immigrants should be expected to do for themselves as American born. Tax dollars are spent with bias and racist intent. That's not AMERICA! It's not fair in a country of freedom and equality. Tax dollars should go solely to the benefit of all in this country, as a whole.

      Let's say an immigrant chose to take on a low paying job. This may be all they qualify for and how EVERYONE starts out. But immigrants have resources. They may pay taxes out of their paycheck but that doesn't account for the food subsidies, housing subsidies, daycare subsidies, health subsidies (including dental) and education subsidies. These are out of pocket expenses to us, plus taxes and house/car insurance. Although our gross income is under $40k, minus the state, city, local, fed, etc. we can't even figure out what we take home. We struggle every day. Sometimes we can't afford school lunches and ONCE with much reluctance applied for assistance just for free or reduced lunches. What PARENTS were held responsible for (their children's breakfast and lunch) is now being provided by government, paid for by taxpayers.

      Because we aren't under government dependency of any kind, we were denied! This little bit of help that would have helped greatly. Those that get government food subsidies should be the ones denied. We don't appreciate being forced to take from others (the taxpayers.) It is beneath us to take anything from government. Yet the government is taking so much from us to appease the lifestyle of others and their lack of will to do for themselves, we will eventually be FORCED on government dependency.

      The "Dream Act" as you say is for more then "illegals" but according to the qualifications you mentioned there was no information at any time given to me regarding my qualified high school children? Any bill written by government can not be trusted the way it is written. There is much in a government bill written that is compromised and with bias.

      Because the government refused to hold all accountable and decided people couldn't be expected to take on the strength of the constitution as written, they continue to reword or dismiss it. All for nothing but appeasement. The constitution is a beautiful document for all mankind for all times now and to come. When the government refuses to stand up to it, shows great weakness of them and the people of this country.

      Danny, if every immigrant (illegal and not) had the same integrity as you, living independently as you, doing for themselves as you, we would ALL be better off. I'll look at the "Dream Act if you look at the American Constitution in it's written form, maybe we can agree to what is and what isn't fair.

    22. Bill, RC says:

      Hey Barb,

      I agree with Danny. I have read the constitution, quite a few times and do not necessarily see what it has to do with this argument other than it grants everyone equal benefits (at least after the requirement for being a white land holding male went away).

      I understand that many american citizens face hardships, everyone faces them sometime or another in their lifetime. Life is like that. And one thing that is clear is that, like a shark, one must be constantly moving otherwise you will sink. Staying stagnant, and hoping things around you will stay the same is an ineffective strategy. The observations you make about your neighborhood cannot be generalized into the entire country. While some places are declining, others are rising, and overall, new ones are popping up all the time.

      It's part of life to not only keep up the pace, but to attempt to surpass it through furthering education – for everyone. It is up to the individual whether or not he will use the opportunities given to him/her, and it is the job of society as a whole to not hinder anyone based on any discrimination. I oppose affirmative action and any other bills based on race provided that public policy compensates for low-quality education in poor areas.

      It's also important to remember that the US isn't a welfare nation. To blame national or regional issues on immigrants and spending is a bit radical as our welfare spending is actually really low. The areas were our costs are skyrocketing literally out of control is health – and this is also not due to people south of the border, but actually due to our aging population and our changing demographics (as in less workers relative to retirees, not race).

      The Dream Act isn't making school free for anyone. How are you high school kids losing out? Both sets of students will be allowed access to federal LOANS and SCHOLARSHIPs both of which are awarded on merit.

      If it's money you are afraid your kids will lose out on due to illegals, that's wrong. Fafsa will not be drained or cease to exist, federal grants and loans will continue to be around, and private scholarships still exist. All of these are awarded on merit.

      If it's about your son/daughter not being accepted to college anymore, that is wrong as well. There are over 4,000 institutions of 'higher learning.' Trust me, your kids will go to college if they Want to go to college. The opportunity is there for them and no one is taking it away. Now, if they don't get accepted to Harvard to Stanford, it is not because an illegal took their place but actually because they probably did not make the cut. Most people don't, and I wish I had.

      The "economic pie" isn't fixed, it's dynamic. People seem to forget that there is not a set number of jobs and that when an immigrant is hired as a factory worker in LA, he did not replace 1 American worker. Jobs are created and lost daily. If more people have jobs, including immigrants, then that same process will create new jobs due to their demand. Even aliens have banking needs, food needs, and require plumbers when their pipes break, mechanics when the car malfunctions and so on.

      Keep moving, stay on top of it, and go for the jobs you want! Go back to community college, gain new skills, anyone that is a native English speaker holds on advantage over any immigrant. Add a vocational training certificate and you're probably good to go for decades. Add a degree or a master's and you are golden.

      My newphew is in the country illegally. He has lived here most of his life. And I do not feel strongly about the dream act because of him, because quite frankly we are not that close. I support the bill because it is the right thing to do, not morally but economically for the country. Educated people help, not hurt. What does annoy me is all this talk about government hand outs. Never has he nor his family gotten crap from the government, but rather the other way around. Through several home purchases (homeowner tax), car purchases, sales tax, income tax (yes, people do pay) they have provided well over a million dollars in revenue to business and to the government over the past 17 years. My brother moved back to mexico about 6 years ago, but my nephew remained. From mexico, his dad sent him in the past three years 96,000 for college tuition + living expense. This isn't the only case – trust me there are many more people like this that work incredibly hard to give their children the opportunity to succeed.

      What is awful is that once they graduate – although they hold a degree, it cannot be put to use! When this happens, guess who the two losers are?

      1) the graduate who must look elsewhere to be accepted where he can apply his degree

      2) the country that is missing out on an educated person that would be a productive member of the labor force.

      Now, if you rather have all immigrants and their children in the current status quo and serving you when you visit mcdonalds, or cleaning your home then so be it but it isn't going to make you or the rest of society any better off.

    23. Barb -mn says:

      I appreciate people who choose to come to this country, do it because they respect it and have a will to live all freedoms it is and carry on their independence. I appreciate the laws being followed and enforced.

      I don't believe if illegal immigrants assimilated, anyone would know they are here. It was government and media that gave me the news. The father of my best friend growing up is an immigrant. I clean their house.

      As far as hand-outs, once again, someone is getting them. Maybe it's not just "welfare" that's being handed out. Maybe "special interest?" Many entities for some type of "welfare" that the government uses under various titles.

    24. Barb -mn says:

      Oh and Bill, the constitution does not grant equal benefits. It grants equal protection and equal rights. Whatever constitution you're reading is obviously a dubbed one. Government handy work to make you feel more then you are. The real need for educated people, seems to be in Mexico where intelligence is limited. There is plenty of educated legal population here to take on what needs to be taken on. There's not any jobs for the legal population, illegal educated people will not be missed. Just another excuse to pity. They sure could make a difference in Mexico or wherever they're from.

      Because people made a choice that leads to consequence that they are clearly aware of, 1st makes them look terrible, second it is disheartening as they would spread their consequences to the innocent people of another country. If people have a will to be educated they would follow the rules to be. Pay for it themselves. Get off the government dole. Your life existence is not that weak but hand held by government shows your picture as if.

    25. Danny says:

      "The real need for educated people, seems to be in Mexico where intelligence is limited."

      Really? I'm not from Mexico, but that's just insulting, specially when it's such an invalid statement……

    26. Barb -mn says:

      Sorry to read that. No insult intended, but…

      Too bad if it's insulting! How do you think Americans feel having ILLEGAL immigrants leeching off of them? Acting irresponsible for entitlements. won't take personal accountabilities, Causing consequences to innocent others.

      It's just a disappointment, Danny. That immigrants of late 20th century to present, both status, didn't care to respect what this country stood for. And what made her strong.

      Immigrants made her strong since the country was founded up until the late 20th century. Now immigrants, knowingly or not, are a tax burden and part of the collapse within. A great weakness and reluctance to do things on their own the way America is intended, from birth to death. Government plays a bigger role and some in the al gore scenario.

      I don't appreciate your stereo type of McDonald's and housekeeping. People apply by choice, not gun point.

      Government has become all that is unconstitutional. All for the weakness of mankind.

      The meaning of the words freedom, liberty, INDEPENDENCE, rarely seen.

      The more government, the weaker the people.

      It's a bummer, dependent people will never know what their fullest potential of their individual humanity is. They need government to do that for them. Government isn't going to build your human value, qualities or potential. FREEDOM WILL!

    27. Barb -mn says:

      FREEDOM HAS, DOES AND WILL!

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