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  • When Leftists Throw Tantrums

    The left knows they are loosing their fight for government run health care and they are losing badly. Following Senate Finance Committee chairman Max Baucus (D-MT) admission yesterday that a public plan option was “a little off to the side of the table”, single payer advocates disrupted Baucus’s Roundtable Discussion on “Expanding Health Care Coverage” this morning. CongressDaily reports:

    The Senate Finance Committee roundtable discussion on health care had a rough time getting started this morning. As Finance Chairman Max Baucus gaveled the hearing to a start, a man in a baseball cap who had secured a coveted seat in the audience stood up and yelled about a lack of single-payer health care representation in the debate to overhaul the nation’s healthcare system. A second single-payer supporter stood up with the same message, then another, and another. “We need more police,” Baucus joked. The spectacle ended with eight hecklers carted out of the room by the Capitol Police. Senators have taken single-payer — the form of health care that funnels payment through a single entity, usually the government — off the table as an option for comprehensive healthcare overhaul legislation. Republicans view it as a socialist form of government-run health care, and Baucus has acknowledged the country is not prepared to swing that far to the left to provide universal health care.

    Posted in Obamacare [slideshow_deploy]

    15 Responses to When Leftists Throw Tantrums

    1. Marsha, Wheeling WV says:

      They (Washington D.C.) need to understand that they can't run Social Security and Medicare; a National Health Service Board will be against the Articles of the U.S. Constitution; therefore, we have no confidence they can run anything else. Health care is also an intrusion and violation of the 3rd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution as will as a violation of the Articles of the U.S. Constitution. No more central control.

    2. MARK,HOUSTON says:

      Isn't it sad….We claim to be a government run by the people,however, when "we the people " go to the capital to express our outrage and distrust with the government that we allegedly run we're "escorted" out of the building.

    3. discernomatic, Flori says:

      I lived in Italy which only has a single-payer insurance. It doesn't cover dental costs. Normal doctor's appointments are easy to get, but the doctors do not have exam machines at their own practice (exception x-ray specialists). If you need blood drawn or a deeper exam it gets time consuming. Here only one example of many: it took two months to get an appointment for an ultrasound and even then there were at least 20 others waiting that had the same appointment time. After four hours I was still waiting and truthfully said that I would have to leave to pick up my children from school and drop the appointment if I could not get in then. Those present were willing to let me go ahead. One only gets appointments within 2 or 3 days if there is an emergency.

      Dropping off a urine sample of one of my children took 2 hours after drawing a number. Getting blood drawn was about the same. Eye exams sometimes took longer. Even with appointments they were often lagging behind when giving vaccines (Not unlike the Health Department here). Employees miss many hours of work for one exam and many more if they have children. In Italy grandparents often pitch in to wait with grandchildren for appointments so that the parents can work. Treatment is s-l-o-o-o-w. Overall I got used to lines while living near Milan, Italy. I always toted something to read to kill time.

      Those that have more money go to private labs for analyses of body fluids and other checkups. A private insurance is necessary for dental coverage, which is astronomical.

      I also lived in Germany. Germany has a number of insurance companies that cover clients according to state regulations (Gesetzliche Krankenkassen), including dental coverage. Private insurance is also available. More doctors there shared facilities and machines for examination so that patients could be examined on the spot if necessary. Blood and urine were given in the office and then taken by courier to the local hospital for testing. Vaccines were given at the office as well. Appointments necessary in other facilities were handled in a more timely fashion than in Italy.

      Recently, due to the high costs of dental care, the German state insurances had considered dropping dental care. I am not sure whether they have succeeded in doing this or not by now.

      But state insurances did not cover all of the essentials even then. One example: someone I knew underwent an operation to remove part of the small intestine due to cancer. The state insurance was unwilling to pay for the mild chemotherapy recommended by the doctor. That person was well off and privately insured as well, however, and the private insurance took care of the chemo bill.

      In both Germany and Italy everyone gets minimal care, but those with money get it better. In Italy if you have more money you get the care faster as well.

    4. John Phoenix AZ says:

      The British UHS is an ongoing disaster. Doctors leaving, dirty facilities, drugs being restricted because of cost, Lack of supervision and attention to patients, outdated equipment. A primary impediment is the non attention to these items by the PM's

    5. Larry in Texas says:

      Well as things sit now, the government has absolutely no right to look in to my private health issues or remedies. I'd like to think that with all the time, money and energy that went into the Health Insurance Privacy Protection Act, that we won't abandon the ground recovered and protected by it's passing. The gains made by keeping intrusive eyes that have no business or reason delving into our most private of liberties, should not be so easily relented, when doing so will pass a point of no return!

    6. Marsha, Wheeling WV says:

      My husband experienced the disastrous British health system when he lived in England. He can tell you many stories about the health care there.

      I worked in North Dakota in the 1980's and we had Canada day in the hospital. At that time there were only 3 MRI units in the entire country of Canada we had 2 MRI units in Fargo N.D. and there were 2 units in Grand forks, N.D. And for a Canadian to get an MRI they had to come to the U.S. and pay out of their own pocket if they didn't want to wait forever for an MRI. I have a friend who still works in a hospital in North Dakota she says they still have Canada day.

      I know a British expatriate living in West Virginia and he has told me his father had a broken hip and it took 18 months to get it fixed under the British system. So, he went around for 18 months with a broken hip before he could get a Doctor to help him. How sad.

      I don't want their systems!

    7. Zack says:

      Larry-

      The government will not be making those decisions with the single payer proposal by PNHC. That would be left up to you and your doctor. The government would simply act as the insurer. They would receive a bill for the services and pay it.

      • Conn Carroll Conn Carroll says:

        Zack-
        You have not been paying attention to Obama's plans. Even Obama knows that a government run plan where doctors could bill the government for all the care they wanted to would be insanely expensive and bankrupt our country. That is where Comparative Effectiveness Research, the Federal Health Board and rationing come in. Don't believe me? Just read the New Yorker's profile of Obama OMB director Peter Orszag:

        "Orszag is convinced that rising federal health-care costs are the most important cause of long-term deficits. … If spending more on health care has no correlation with making people healthier, then there must be enormous savings that a smart government, by determining precisely which medical procedures are worth financing and which are not, could wring out of the system. “I spent several months in very intense study,” Orszag told me. “The reason that I wanted to go to C.B.O. was I thought that was one of the key bodies that could really delve into what we could do about it.”
        At the core of both the stimulus bill and the Obama budget is Orszag’s belief that a government empowered with research on the most effective medical treatments can, using the proper incentives, persuade doctors to become more efficient health-care providers, thus saving billions of dollars. Obama is in effect betting his Presidency on Orszag’s thesis." http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/05/04/090

    8. Zack says:

      Sorry… typo…

      PNHP

    9. pontesisto, massachu says:

      You are wrong to label single payer health care a left leaning issue. Many people on the right also support single payer and a healthy society just like they support police and fire departments. Disease just like crime and fire impacts all of us whether we like it or not so we have to work together to combat it.

      If the Republican party is going to insist that single payer health care be labeled a left leaning issue then they will continue to lose support. Many people see it as a necessary non-partisan issue.

      If you would like to help pressure Congress to pass single payer by overcoming party politics please join our voting bloc at: http://www.votingbloc.org/Health_Bloc.php

    10. jacksmith says:

      Swine flu (A-H1N1) and Healthcare In America

      Well my fellow Americans, and people of the World. That was yet another very close potential catastrophe. Especially for those of us that live in America with our busted, greed driven, private for profit healthcare system. What ever you do World. Don't copy our current healthcare system.

      If that virus (A-H1N1) had emerged just a few months earlier our busted healthcare system in America would have collapsed. Just like our economy almost did. And hundreds of thousands more Americans, if not millions would have needlessly lost their lives. As hospital ER's became choked with the sick, and dying.

      All on top of the hundreds of thousands of Americans who needlessly lose their lives in America each year from a rush to profit by the private for profit healthcare industry. Rich, middle class, and poor a like. Insured, and uninsured. Men Women, Children, and Babies.

      This was yet another big WAKE-UP! call for America, and for our Government. It's time for Congress to end the debate. And stop dancing around the issues of how they can continue to try and justify protecting the private for profit healthcare industry, and the private for profit healthcare insurance industry. These industries are killing hundreds of thousands of Americans every year in America, and endangering our National security.

      "the health-care system is, first and foremost, for the American people—not the companies that profit from it." (Tom Daschle | NEWSWEEK)

      IT'S OVER! The Private for profit healthcare experiment in America is dead. It FAILED! And it was a DISASTER!

      "NOT FOR PROFIT, TAX PAYER SUPPORTED, SINGLE PAYER, AUTOMATIC, FREE UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE FOR ALL. Is the ONLY! way to go.

      Essentially HR676 (enhanced, and expanded medicare for all). Just like every other CIVILIZED! country in the developed World has. There is no other way to truly fix or reform our current disastrous healthcare delivery system. NONE!

      Congress, fix our healthcare crisis while you still have time.

      President Obama, VP Biden, the Obama administration and the rest of his advisors, along with Speaker Pelosi and Harry Reid are doing an excellent job of protecting you. And also an excellent job of representing you and the best interest of the World. But it's time for the rest of Congress to get on board.

      I will have more to say about this VERY! unusual virus (A-H1N1), and flu in general, later. There are some things you really need to know and think about… All of you.

      Till then, God Bless And Keep You All

      Jack Smith — Working Class

    11. marcy pompano beach says:

      talking about tantrums- you have to wonder what the left will do when they are on the receiving end of this potential nightmare…i can see it now -sitting there waiting to be cared for, first all the comments under their breath blaming bush…then getting louder and pushing their weight around…third calling 911 and so it goes…off to jail and to think when they get out they still have to make another appointment and start it all over again

    12. Janice F. Gable, MD says:

      I was a physician in Appalachia for 34 years. The respondents to this article about the single payer political action at the Baucus roundtable are not addressing the obscenity that is 3rd world health care in large segments of our nation.

      America's costs for health care are tremendously higher than other nations who have better health outcomes as measured by WHO.

      We have healthcare rationing (No health care if you cannot afford it.)

      We disadvantage our industry by tying health care to employers.

      About the other responders: as Daniel Patrick Moynihan said,"You are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts." Check it out about the British, Japanese, French, Taiwanese, Canadian, Italian and many other superior systems.

      If they spent as much as we do, issues in their universal coverage would be obliterated.

    13. Marsha, Wheeling WV says:

      Respectfully disagree with Zack and Dr. Gable; you are naive about government being an insurer. I shudder. We do not want government bureaucrats operating anything.

      Zack, I have a problem with your source the New Yorker?

      Dr. Gable my husband has personally experienced the British system. Talk to any expatriate from Britain and those countries you are talking about and you may get a different story. If they don't tell you the pitfalls then you better ask them why they are here. If they are expatriates and believe their health care is better than they should go back to get health care from one of those countries not use the American health care system. Or may want to read what the writer above "discernomatic" said who lived in Italy and what he/she experienced.

      I experience an expression from a British nurse when she came into a hospital I worked in South Eastern Virginia several years ago, she asked me why we had so many old people in the hospital. I asked her what she ment… She said we don't let them go to the hospital we let them die. Cost benefit ratio. I am not talking about real old people either. They look at your contribution to society. How many work years you have left and determine by your age whether you can have that care.

      In the National Health Service a bureaucrat determines what you can have and can't have. No life saving breast cancer drugs either too costly, most recent dicision by NHS in England.

      Canada Days are well known by many bordering states. Canadians coming to America to seek health care and paying for it out of their own pockets. Waiting an average of 52 weeks for surgery is not superior. Not being able to get an MRI in canada, because they have to travel too far and/or wait too long.

      Waiting 15 to 24 months to have broken hips fixed in England is superior? No anesthesia for sutures in England under the public system is superior because the local doctor says no? I know my husband had an eight inch laceration that needed sutures without anesthesia under the British system. This is superior?

      I will agree, prenatal care is great in England and better than the United States. Multiple pregnancies are not and/or complicated pregnancy issues are not. England schedules births with induced labor and you stay in large wards 6 or more people to a room. If there is a death that poor woman is lumped in with the live birth mothers; cruel don't you think?

      Spending is not the answer. We spend more than the countries you talk about on education and everyone seems to think they have a better system than we do? Not logical thinking out spending. We offer everyone an education they (English) cut it off and only allow those who qualify to go on. Everyone in the United states can access 11th and 12th year here of high school.

      Dr. Gable you must not be practicing any more. I live in the part of the United States you said you practiced for 34 years. I respectfully disagree. I am very familiar with health care systems and continue to be associated with them.

      If you want to get numerous examples access the British and Canadian newspapers on line and/or blogs concerning their health care. I haven't even begun to talk about Australia, yet.

      The French can't even access 500 cc to 1000 cc Saline bags in the quantities needed for their people. Don't you read the papers they kill off their elderly every August by the droves.

      Yes, in these countries the elite get care, not the average Joe.

    14. Valfredo, Pisa, Ital says:

      Lady talking about Italian system is ridiculous.

      I was transferred to the U.S. by my company for a two year assignment in the late 1990s. The U.S. subsidiary had a contract with a insurance company called Blue Cross.

      In my experience, I would never want to have the system in the US compared to the one we have in Tuscany. While I don't have experience with the systems in other Italian regions, and Italian health care is managed by the regional governments (like US states), our system is far superior to the system that I experienced in state of Virginia where we lived. Doctors lost information, only certain services were covered by very expensive insurance (I pay over 400$ per month and company paid even more for family coverage), if you make mistake and go to wrong laboratory you have to pay all and during the one hospital stay for my wife for a surgery, we have to pay for extra days in hospital because insurance had set number and my wife was not in position to leave hospital in our (and our Italian doctor who call US doctor to discuss) opinion.

      In Tuscany, whether going to our local clinic or to our selected primary physician (and we choose them personally) I have never had to wait for care when anyone in the family was actually ill. My mother recently waited for a hip replacement surgery for about 2 months but she had waited years before deciding to do the procedure, so it wasn't a hardship. On the other hand, when my father had a serious crisis with respect to his prostrate, he was admitted to the hospital and operated within a few days.

      After the hip replacement, my mother spent a month at a spa for rehabilitation, all part of the procedure and free of charge.

      Blood tests for many issues can be done a pharmacies immeditaely on a walking in basis. X-rays, are also walking in basis while MRI/CTI must be scheduled, there is no "waiting list" in Tuscany. There are 26 CT/MRI machines per million in Italy and only 22 per million in the US, so there would be a shorter wait in Italy than the US just based on availibility of machinery.

      http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/452954_4

      There are many reasons I prefer our "free" no pay system besides it is covering all people but basic numbers tell why Italy is rating no. 2 or no. 3 in the world according to international organizations while US is lowest of OECD countries. Why US is comparing against low rated systems like UK or Canada, I don't understand. They are not typical universal systems, they are low rated systems. UK is one of the lowest rated in Europe. While our healthcare budget is higher than UK, it is much lower than US and we receive much better service and everyone has access.

      As far as physicians, we have more than twice as many per 1000 of population than the US 6 versus 2,8.

      http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/452954_4

      As far as hospital beds for acute care we have 4,5 per 1000 of population compared to 2.8 in the US.

      http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/452954_4

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